PELADE by Zhang Ren and Dong Zhi Lin (hairloss)

tutor

[quote:869332e019="tutor"]Sorry to say I don't have such experience but the surrounding method is often used to treat some disorders with skin lesions, e.g. the carbuncles or furuncles.

That's understood as the local needling techniques.[/quote:869332e019]
A few quotes from the book [u:869332e019]New Acupuncture and Moxibustion[/u:869332e019] (Russian edition, 1959) by Dr. [b:869332e019]Zhu Lian[/b:869332e019], [i:869332e019]the first director of the Institute of Acupuncture and Moxibustion of China Academy of Traditional Chinese Medicine[/i:869332e019]. Although [i:869332e019]tutor[/i:869332e019] has once said they do not even remember her name in China anymore .

[quote:869332e019][b:869332e019]Furuncle[/b:869332e019]

To treat a furuncle, moxibustion is used over the affected area, and acupuncture is applied [i:869332e019]near the affected place[/i:869332e019]. If there is swelling and hyperaemia, acupuncture using the reinforcing manipulation is applied. If puss is coming out, the reducing manipulation is used. [/quote:869332e019]
[quote:869332e019][b:869332e019]Acne vulgaris[/b:869332e019]

According to the author's observations, acupuncture and moxibustion give positive results. The reinforcing manipulation is usually applied to the points [i:869332e019]near the skin elements[/i:869332e019]. Moxibustion is used over the skin elements. [/quote:869332e019]
[quote:869332e019][b:869332e019]Alopecia[/b:869332e019]

In case of alopecia totalis, apart from [i:869332e019]applying acupuncture to the affected area[/i:869332e019], general strengthening of the body is important. For this, the reducing manipulation is used selecting from the following points: Xinshe, Dazhui, Feishu, Gaohuang, Shenshu, Dachangshu, Jiquan, Shaohai, Quchi, Hegu, Zusanli, Xuanzhong, Yinlingquan, Sanyinjiao. If the patients has developed alopecia areata recently, [i:869332e019]local points[/i:869332e019] as well as distant points could be used. [/quote:869332e019]
[quote:869332e019][b:869332e019]Acne rosacea[/b:869332e019]

In patients with rosacea acupuncture and moxibustion are also used. Moxibustion is recommended over the affected area, and acupuncture is applied to the points [i:869332e019]near the affected area[/i:869332e019]. The points usually used include: Yintang, Sibai, Yingxiang, Shuigou, Suliao, etc. The reducing manipulation is used. Moxibustion using sparrow-pecking technique is applied for 1-2 minutes over each zone. [/quote:869332e019]
It seems that she recommended using surrounding acupuncture around the skin lesions and moxibustion with moxa sticks over them.

Your comments would be appreciated...

tutor

OK, Sergiy,
It's very good you pasted some of Dr. Zhu Lian's clinical experience.

But it seems you still have some objections on what I said in China Dr. Zhu is not well known in the acupuncture circle, say nothing of the whole circle of traditional Chinese medicine.

In fact, you might ask Mr. Pan Ping, if he's got any idea about Dr. Zhu before our discussion about him. In fact Mr. Pan Ping has been in the field of traditional Chinese medicine for over 20 years.

Now, I think I should say a little more about Dr. Zhu Lian's clinical features.

Dr. Zhu was great to do acupuncture! The reason why I say so is because she had practiced western medicine for quite a long while before doing acupuncture.
You know, at that time, acupuncture or even traditional Chinese medicine was not taken into the publich health system, so acupuncture was regarded more or less as a kind of majic or witch technique, not really a method of medicine. So, as a physician of western medicine, she started to do acupuncture, and took it as a life career, is it very great?

However, this greatness or my personal respect to her won't neutralize her shortcoming or demerits in the practice and training of acupuncture! I have to say so!

First of all, she didn't do differentiation of syndromes, but just some fixed formulas. So, sometimes, she would do too many points, 40 or 50 in one patient, at lease one of her students said so. Don't you think this is a good way of acupuncture? Or the foreign patients would accept this type of needling treatment?

Secondly she didn't recognize the meridians and collaterals, but just the lines and acupoints.

Thirdly, her needling technique i.e. the reinforcing and reducing techbiques were not in line with the traditional ways.


So, from these points, she's been not accepted as a "real" or a conventional acupuncture physician!

From the examples you have listed above, we could see some of her shortcomings.

To treat furuncles or carbuncles, we should pay attention to the color and temperature of and around the skin lesions, so to decide the deficiency and excess, cold or heat, while Dr. Zhu just decide the reinforcing and reducing techniques by whether the pus is out or not.
If it's a excessive and heat syndrome, we'd better not use moxibustion, at least the green hands of acupuncture should be careful in using it.
But Dr. Zhu didn't say anything about it.
Moxibustion would be very good to some chronic cases of the skin lesions, the pus maybe is inside, but it cannot break out, while the skin color is white, so the moxibustion treatment would help.

But I think the surrounding technique could be used, that's no harm at all.
If the differentiation of syndrome is combined with the surrounding method, it would be much more effective. And don't forget herbs.

The Russian version of Dr. Zhu's "New Acupuncture and Moxibustion" helped the spreading of acupuncture in Russia, but also caused some problems, i.e. the Russian acupuncture practitioners don't pay enough attention to the traditional acupuncture in China, neither they know enough of the use acupuncture in China nowadays.

So, that's Yin and Yang!

Ok, I don't want to deny the contribution made by Dr. Zhu in the field of acupuncture, but just try to tell Sergiy the truth why Dr. Zhu is not well known in China.
Hope Sergiy understand me in a right way so don't throw a stone on my head

Tutor

tutor

Thank you very much for your detailed post. Your first hand infromation is very valuable.

[quote:aadd328cdd="tutor"]The Russian version of Dr. Zhu's "New Acupuncture and Moxibustion" helped the spreading of acupuncture in Russia, but also caused some problems, i.e. the Russian acupuncture practitioners don't pay enough attention to the traditional acupuncture in China, neither they know enough of the use acupuncture in China nowadays.[/quote:aadd328cdd]
I believe, it is not entirely Dr. Zhu's fault. In Russia acupuncture (called [i:aadd328cdd]Reflexotherapy[/i:aadd328cdd] there, by the way) from the beginning was thought of as a form of reflex therapy, acting through the neural reflex pathways, which was most likely due to ideological reasons. Or, could this be the way in which acupuncture really acts? Don't many of your own researches in China point in this same direction?
[quote:aadd328cdd="tutor"]Hope Sergiy understand me in a right way so don't throw a stone on my head [/quote:aadd328cdd]
No stones on your head meant. It just seemed strange to me your people would not remember the [i:aadd328cdd]first[/i:aadd328cdd] director of the [i:aadd328cdd]first[/i:aadd328cdd] Acupuncture and Moxibustion Institute of the [i:aadd328cdd]first[/i:aadd328cdd] Academy of TCM in your country (and in the world). No matter whether her approach to acupuncture was completely "traditional" or not...

Thank you again for your excellent comment.

tutor

Dear Sergiy,

In fact, up to mid or even late 1950s, the former Soviet Union and the East bloc government depatched some medical professionals from their countries to China, to learn acupuncture.

However, as we all know, the culture background is tremendously different, acupuncture has not been widely spread in these country. I think it's the same in the western countries.

While the acupuncture became more and more popular after the early 1970s, in the former East bloc countries, acupuncture remained the same. Maybe that's because of the ideological factors. I don't know exactly why.


So the Russian acupuncture practitioners nowadays still have the impression of Dr. Zhu's new acupuncture, but they don't have many idea on the real tradtional Chinese acupuncture and the use of acupuncture in China at the moment. Of course, Dr. Zhu would have never expected this situation, it is NOT her fault . That's only the fact.

In fact in China, acupuncture research has been done in variety ways, not only the neural reflexotherapy. We do realized the correlation between the acupuncture treatment and the neuro-transmitters (opoid substance), but we also did the research in some other areas, e.g. the clinical trials, such as for the treatment of cardiovascular diseases, cerebr0vascular diseases, ect.

The point why the acupuncture practitioners outside of China don't have much knowledge of these research is because of the language barrier!

Majorities of this type of literatures are not translated into English, and I don't think you could find 100-plus acupuncture practitioners in China who are able to communicate with foreign counterparts in fluent English.

Another point is some Chinese acupuncture practitioners are not really willing to tell their experience to foreigners! At least they don't think it's important to spread their knowledge or experience to outside of China.
I'm one of them, hahahaha...

Don't you think I am?


It's funny, we talked about Zhang Ren and Dong Zhi Lin, but finally we are talking something totally different!

Ok, Sergiy, I'm going to bed now.

Tutor

tutor

One more example of the same "surrounding" technique (from Tianjin College of Traditional Chinese Medicine, China), but with a different name ("local multi-needle puncturing").

Source: Meng X. COMMENTS ON CLINICAL APPLICATION OF LOCAL MULTI-NEEDLE PUNCTURING. World Journal of Acupuncture-Moxibustion 2002: Vol.12, No. 4.

[quote:4efc247a9f]Local multi-needle puncturing is that multiple filiform acupucture needles are inserted into the topical area straight or transversely.

HERPES ZOSTER

Herpes zoster is called as "Chan Yao Huo Dan" in TCM, and is mostly seen in
adults. At the initial stage, the patient feels burning pain in the local skin, 1-3 days later, scattered erythema occurs along the distributing region of a certain nerve, gradually, clusters of millet-like or mung bean-like papular eruption, blisters appear chiefly in the chest and back, lumbar and abdominal regions as well as the head part, accompanied with unbearable violent neuralgia. The duration of the disease is about 2-4 weeks.

In regard to the treatment, 3-4 acupuncture needles are inserted into the skin around the injured area to advance toward the central part, then retained for 30 min.

Note: In the treatment of this disease with acupuncture, the opportunity is very important, the earlier the treatment, the better is the analgesic effect. The therapeutic effect of acupuncture in analgesia is far more effective than any analgesics. The present therapy also works well in the treatment of herpes zoster with a longer duration or with sequelae in spite of a relatively longer treatment time.

Topical multi-needle method is recorded in the classic medical book Ling Shu (Miraculous Pivot) named as triple puncture, cental-square needling, and superficial puncture. The stimulating quantity of this needling is stronger, can function in dredging meridians and promoting qi and blood circulation. Generally, acupoints being selected, needling sensations are produced, multiple acupuncture needles are insserted obliquely or transversely into the skin around the affected region from different directions, causing the needling sensations spreading to the peripheral part. At the beginning, the needling manipulation should be mild, latter, the needling sensations increase gradually but within the patient's tolerable limit.[/quote:4efc247a9f]

By the way, I thought that [b:4efc247a9f]superficial puncture[/b:4efc247a9f] (from the [b:4efc247a9f]twelve methods[/b:4efc247a9f] described in [b:4efc247a9f]Ling Shu[/b:4efc247a9f], chapter Guan Zhen) was to treat [b:4efc247a9f]painful muscular spasm[/b:4efc247a9f]?
[quote:4efc247a9f]"There are twelve methods in pricking to treat the various diseases of the twelve channels.
(...)
The ninth kind is called the superficial-puncture which is to prick shallowly lateral to the surface of the muscle to treat the bi-syndrome due to muscular spasm.
(...)"
([i:4efc247a9f]translation by Jing-Nuan Wu[/i:4efc247a9f]).[/quote:4efc247a9f]

tutor

Yes, there are many modern names of needling which are on the basis of the methods recorded in Internal Classic!

Ok, we have one more here.