yin deficiency

Dear Tutor
I have a problem regarding yin deficiency.As I have learned, yin is concept in contrast to yang. something could be yin when compared to something yang.So how can yin be deficient? Yin is a characteristic not a substance. So I can't understand what is really absent in a case of yin deficiency?
Best regards

Dear Saho,
I think you even forget what Yin is!!!
Is Yin substantial? Or is Yin only characteristic?

Please review course A and read once more on the Yin and Yang!!!

Dear tutor
By your advice I studied the yin-yang chapter of course A one more time. Let me clarify my question
The text says: "The theory of Yin-Yang, however, does not itself refer to any concrete objective phenomena." And "Yin and Yang are a philosophical conceptualization".

I deduce that when we talk about yin deficiency, we are talking about the deficiency of a quality.
Further, when explaining the pathological changes according to this theory, the text says:" Preponderance of Yin results in the hypo function of the organism or the endogenous cold. [u:e7e1103e01]Deficiency of Yin as the result of exhausted vital essence may lead to the endogenous heat"[/u:e7e1103e01]
It is saying that exhaustion of [b:e7e1103e01]vital essence[/b:e7e1103e01] results in yin deficiency. My plain question is that what is this vital essence? (It can't be the same as jing because we don't have jing deficiency in every case of yin deficiency.)
Regards
Saho

Dear Saho,
I think we have to be sure what is Yin and what is Yang!

All the functions are considered as Yang while the substance, no matter in the nature and in the human body are Yin!

So, when we are talking about the Yin, it refers to our body, everything!
So what should be included?

To compare with the body, what do we have as a living human being?
This is a question to you.

The theory must be used to guide the real or the concrete phenomenon.

I didn't answer this part of your question directly, didn't I?
I know some foreigners don't like my way of answering questions, they told me directly in the forum, by private letters, or even told the my boss in Medboo, but this is the way of learning traditional Chinese medicine, or some other Chinese culture.
Maybe westerners like the direct answer, but the Chinese teachers like to make you think, and it's you but nobody to give the answer to your question.
It is understood in Chinese culture, the best teachers are those who can make the students think mainly by themselves.
Some of the Medboo students come to study traditional Chinese medicine in a way of purchasing goods, they paid the course, and then they just want whatever they need, no matter what the teacher said is good or bad, if they don't like, they would say no answer to their question.
But they forget that the knowledge is not goods, like the muscles, somebody has good muscles, I like the muscles, so I try to buy the muscles, is that possible?
Of course I should buy the way of making the muslces, not the muscles proper.


Ok, forget about the teaching method. Just because of your question remind me of this kind of misunderstanding between the Chinese and western cultures.
Now, let's talk about the second part, the vital essence.
That is what we call the Jing in Chinese. I think the translation is basically good.
Sometimes, the essence is indeed referred to the sperm, or semen, or even the female hermones.
No matter what it is referred to, the Jing is in the category of Yin, it is not understood as Yang. Apparently, it is a part of our body.

So of course the exhaustion of the vital essence is leading to the deficiency of Yin.

When we say Yin deficiency, we mean a general condition, while when we are talking about the deficiency of Jing, that's much more concrete, or specific. Like we might say somebody is weak, that's the general condition; but we may say his stomach is weak, or his legs are weak, that's all about some specific parts of the body.

Is this a bit clearer?

You still need to answer my question.

Tutor

Dear tutor
Thank you for the answer. First of all,let me tell you that I am not a westerner. I am iranian, with an eastern culture. I appreciate the westerners' approach to the scientific issues, they try to be clear, precise,detailed and to the point, but any way I am from an eastern culture. In Iran we have a proverb that says: "Don't give a hungry person a fish, but teach him fishing", so I think that this way of making people think about their questions is the best way a teacher can use although not to the point that the student feels that the teacher is not willing to answer('')

Any way for me the best way to learn, is the way of dialog, mutual talk(In fact sometimes I am surprised why other fellow students do not take part in the conversation)
Now your question"To compare with the body, what do we have as a living human being?
Biologically speaking and putting the function aside,to me, as a pathologist, The body is composed of cells, cells aggregate to form tissues, tissues are placed in an orderly manner beside one another to form organs,these organs have products, and the organs together with their products make up the material portion of what we call human body.
According to TCM all these are yin.Does it mean that when we talk about yin deficiency, one or some of these cells,tissues and organs are somehow defective in structure?
Best regards
Saho

Dear Saho,
I found the mistake in my question.
I should ask "What else do we have in addition to our body as an living human being?"

Ok, do you notice that in the text there's a saying, that something is the signal of Yin and Yang?

What?

So, you might have a better understanding of Yin and Yang.

Tutor

Dear Dr Du
Hi. I am really sorry for such a late reply. The fact is that I was out on a business trip for a couple of days and I couldn't continue our discussion and answer your question.

These are my understandings of what our text says:

The text says:"Water and fire are symbols of Yin and Yang"
So in order to understand yin deficiency we should look for something with characteristics of water.

"When the concept of the interdependence is applied to the physiology of the human body, Yin corresponds to nutrient substances, and Yang to functional activities.'

The text definitely says that physiologically speaking,yin is the nutrient substances

"Physiological functions are based on the substance. Without substance (yin), including the vital essence, blood and body fluids, there would be no source for functions."

Again the text calls vital substance, blood and body fluid as the substance or yin

So I deduce that we we have "yin deficiency" we have [u:d3d300a2bb]the deficiency of one or more of the nutrient substances [/u:d3d300a2bb]which are fluid in nature and have the function of cooling, moistening and nourishing.

Am I right in my deduction?

But regarding your question:" What else do we have in addition to our body as an living human being?" My answer would be Qi.

And about what you said that : "in the text there's a saying, that something is the signal of Yin and Yang? " I couldn't find any direct answer in the text. But I think that since water is the symbol of yin and fire is the symbol of yang,any thing with such characteristics could signal to yin and yang.

Waiting for your corrections
Saho

Dear Saho,
First of all, your deduction is basically right!
But it's not only the fluid is Yin, all our body is Yin, everything!

As to the signal of Yin and Yang, I think I used a wrong termnology, it should be the symbol!
So, you told me already what are the symbols of Yin and Yang.

As to the question :" What else do we have in addition to our body as an living human being?", I don't think you are ritht!

Qi could be a part of our body! That's what the text tells us clearly.

Would you think over again?

Tutor

Dear Dr Du
Things are getting a little bit complicated('')

" What else do we have in addition to our body as a living human being?"
To analyze the question we may say the question implies that for us to be a living human being,apart our body we need something else. What is this "something else"?
Different schools of thought may have different answers to this question, but from a TCM point of view may be you are talking about our soul, spirit or shen?

Dear Saho,
I think this time you've got the point!

Think, without the spirit or Shen, are we still the living human beings?


Tutor