Regarding points on the Lung meridian

Dear Tutor,

Lu 8 is contraindicated for moxibustion according to the text. Why? To me it seems to have quite similar anatomy as the nearest proximal and distal points. It is a metal point on a metal meridian.
In some sources it has no contraindication for moxibustion.

The text describes the depth of perpendicular needling to 0,3-0,5 cun. A cun being approximately one inch means that 0,3-0,5 cun is approximately 3/4 - 1 1/4 cm. It seems rather that one has to avoid injuring the carpal joint than having to avoid the artery...

Speaking about blood vessels. With the fine sterile steel needles of today (and not bone fragments, fishbones etc) - how "bad" is it to puncture the vessel. I have been taught that sticking through the vessel is ok. The puncture wound is so tiny and heals while withdrawing the needle and that bleeding only occurs when the needle goes through the vessel wall (creating a larger "wound").
_________________
Too much warmth will create a desert.

-------------------------------------------

Equiterapeut

Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:44 am    

Dear Equiterapeut
According to the ancient literatures of acupuncture, moxibustion on this point is harmful to the mind.
I don't know why. I think it's nothing to do with the anatomy.

Yes, as to the needling technique, it should be careful to avoid the thrusting to the vessel.

If it's a small vessel, which is thrust by acupuncture needles, it would be no problem. But if it's a big artery, it's no good.
However, it's not so easy to thrust a big artery with an acupuncture needles. If one inserts a needle slowly with caution, it would not go into the arteries so easily.

--------------------------------

tutor

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:53 pm    

Dear Tutor,

thanks for the answer. There is however one thing that I am a little confused about. When the insertion depth is 0,3-0,5 cun perpendicularly over joints, like TH04 and PC07 isn't there a risk of penetrating the joint capsule and enter the joint?
_________________
Too much warmth will create a desert.

-------------------------

Equiterapeut

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:16 pm    

What is TH 4?

Dear Equiterapeut, did you see an acupuncture needle? Did you notice how tiny it is?

Even an acupuncture needle is thrust into the joint capsule, it is not much harm to make.

In fact, that depth is not really too much inside the joint capsule in such points as PC 7.

It seems Tutor knows alot of the classical literatures of acupuncture.
Yes, the book Great Compendium of Acupuncture talks about the contraindication for the point of LU 8.

-----------------------------------

David King

Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:59 pm    

Dear David King,

Thanks for the answer.
TH is San Jiao / Triple Heater.

Referring to Sergiys comments in other threads about sterilization of needles and skin. I have met more discussions about penetrating joints (and its unsiutability and infectious risks) than about skin cleaning. This is however discussions on veterinary practice.
That is where my concerns about joint penetration comes from.
_________________
Too much warmth will create a desert.

--------------------------------

Equiterapeut

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:42 am    

Dear Equiterapeut,
In fact, according to the Chinese as well as World Health Organization's Standardization, San Jiao is called either directly the Chinese San Jiao, or Triple Energizer, so it should be SJ or TE.

If the needle is clean, usually even it's going inside the joint capsules, it's not really cause infection, or even the infection is caused, it's not really because of its being dirty, rather it's because of the irritation, personally I think.

------------------------------

David King

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:55 pm    

Dear David King,

It seems logical to use SJ or TE not so it isn't so easily mixed with Th as in thoracic vertebra. Many Swedish sources still use TH. I have seen some German ones that use TC as in tricalori or 3E as in dreifacher erwärmer (triple energizer or heater).

Using SJ or TE works fine with me
_________________
Too much warmth will create a desert.

----------------------------------

Equiterapeut

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:28 am    

It's Ok, doesn't matter!

Nothing can really make an exact translation!!!

In fact, even in Chinese there are too many different opinions on San Jiao

--------------------------------

David King

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:54 pm